Mercy rule for Football

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  • bulldawgnation27610 May 21, 2014
    Pro

    "The state will have mercy, but we won't."

    Great mentality to have going into the season.

  • UNC_fan4eva May 21, 2014
    Veteran

    There is no need for a mercy rule in HS football. The vast majority of coaches already agree to a running clock when the score gets too lopsided and substitute freely.

    Lopsided games are a fact of life in HS and college sports - young athletes should be prepared for them. Been on the losing side and the winning side of those games - both experiences are valuable.

  • kmagnusson May 17, 2014
    Sports Legend

    Thank you almighty and powerful lbeck for listening to my plea!!!

  • lbeck37439 May 16, 2014
    Sports Legend

    KMAG

    That is going to take sometime to find. But I will work on it.

  • FleaFlicker May 13, 2014
    Rookie

    Running clocks seem the norm in the world of HS. Quitting just seems to leave a bad taste in everyone's mouth.

  • kmagnusson May 12, 2014
    Sports Legend

    Parisislander2

    Lbeck will have the answer to your question on the greatest high school comeback in NC Football history. The problem is you asked for a numbers GEEK which is an insult to the great and powerful Lbeck!!!

    You must summon him like the great football God that he is!!! For example......almighty Lbeck we summon you to help us with a football stat. We realize we are not worthy to be in your presence or have the right to cast our eyes upon you,however, we beg and implore your indulgence to thrill us with your knowledge and answer Parisislanders question even though we are useless and inferior oxygen wasting human beings. We thank you in advance for taking time away from solving all the worlds problems to consider this rather useless and meaningless question!!!!

  • parisislander2 May 12, 2014
    Rookie

    Not false at all. You, yourself point to the football mercy rule having consequences, otherwise you would not be opposed.

    Again, there is no point in arguing anything if you don't know what the biggest comeback in NC HS history is. If we can discover this very germane stat, then we will have something to debate. Until then, we are wasting our efforts.

  • cap8fan May 12, 2014
    All Star

    "Holds no merit" is false. As I stated before, there is nothing in life that will allow you to just stop doing what you are doing without any consequences that will be with you for a long time.

    Sure, you can quit a job without notice, but then who do you use for a reference? Sure, you can stop paying your credit card bills but that destroys your credit and puts you in collections. Of course, you can file bankruptcy, but that impacts your credit and immediate future.

    From my perspective, there is no instances in society where you can just stop doing something without consequence because you aren't prepared or you are overmatched. Values are weakening.

  • parisislander2 May 12, 2014
    Rookie

    My point is the mercy rule does exist in society in many forms. The argument that we don't need a mercy rule because it does not exist in society holds no merit.

    I did not comment on the positive or negative social impacts of various mercy rules as there are clearly both.

    At any rate, none of this even matters if no one knows the biggest comeback in NC HS history. Some numbers geek has to know. Enlighten us all!

  • cap8fan May 12, 2014
    All Star

    I am still against it. You provided some good examples of the mercy rules that are embedded in society but what you failed to acknowledge was the long-standing negative impacts of those example. You feel consequences of bankruptcy for 7 years after you claim it. Most men have to pay alimony after a divorce, etc. the only way you can compare the mercy rule to those examples is if there was an additional consequence for the application of the mercy rule. For example, if Team A chooses to exercise the mercy rule, then they forfeit the following weeks game. Then, it would be similar to your examples.

    FYI, criminal records are never really "sealed." That information can be accessed at anytime by law enforcement.

  • parisislander2 May 12, 2014
    Rookie

    Since no one knows the largest comeback in NC HS history, there is no real argument on either side of this issue.

  • parisislander2 May 9, 2014
    Rookie

    Again, does anyone know what the biggest comeback in NC HS history is?

  • parisislander2 May 9, 2014
    Rookie

    Yes there is, we all can claim bankruptsy is one easy example of the mercy rule in society. Like it or not, it is here to stay.

    There are a million other examples we could come up with if we really put our minds to it such as under age criminal records being sealed at 18 or amnesty for draft dodgers in the 1970's. And lets not forget divorce and the adjustable national debt ceiling. There are more mercy rules in life than anyone one of us realizes.

  • cap8fan May 9, 2014
    All Star

    If we believe that athletics teaches life lessons to kids, then the mercy rule is a clear antithesis of that. There is no mercy rule for life...no "easy button."

    Things happen that you can't control. No matter how hard we prepare, things don't go our way and sometimes things end badly. How are kids going to learn how to deal with it if we keep trying to protect them from it. Character isn't built when you are ahead by 50, it is built when you are behind by 50 and you keep working and find a way to fight back.

    We baby our kids too much and then we wonder why they are the way they are (poor work ethic, lazy, complainers). Shame on us. Like Bernie Mack said "we are the punk a_ _ parents." Afraid to let our babies get hurt or feel bad. It is a shame.

  • parisislander2 May 9, 2014
    Rookie

    Does anyone know what is the largest comeback in NC HS history?

  • parisislander2 May 9, 2014
    Rookie

    My view is at worst it is an unnecessary rule.

  • kmagnusson May 8, 2014
    Sports Legend

    At best this is an unnecessary rule........sometimes teams get a large lead because of turnovers and that could switch in the second half. You turn the ball over four or 5 times in a half you could easily get down by 42. I recall a Rose Bowl game between Iowa and number one ranked Washington Huskies. The first half would have qualified for the mercy rule but the game ended in a 55 to 47 loss for Iowa and they almost recovered an onside kick after their last score......so who knows. For a time I thought Iowa was going to make a remarkable comeback.
    If Middle Creek were down by 42 in the first half would I be convinced the game was over?? No!!! I have seen them score a number of TDs in a minute or less and when a pass falls incomplete it doesn't hurt MC because it stops the clock. MC is the type of team that could pass every down the entire season and have a successful season. Southern Durham is another team that I think could do the same.

  • parisislander2 May 8, 2014
    Rookie

    If both teams were running the ball as they should, it doesn't lessen the snaps much.

    No one is stopping a coach from putting his backups in when he is down 32. No one is telling the winning side to keep the starters in when up 30 points. There really isn't much argument here.

  • kmagnusson May 8, 2014
    Sports Legend

    They didn't......I notice that stuff. The games I am referring to my team was ahead so if they went to a running clock it would have been okay with me. It does get boring as a fan to see the clock being stopped on incomplete passes, receiver stepping out of bounds and time outs when the game is effectively over. My opinion on this issue is based on kids getting a chance to play who normally dont and the Coaches being able to see how kids react in game situations, as well as trying risky plays. Whether I am bored or not shouldn't be the issue.
    I never leave until the game is over despite the Score and I have seen Parents thrilled to see their kids on the field even though they clearly didn't know what they were doing or where they were supposed to line up. " that's my boy running the wrong way....look how fast he is!!!!" A running clock will definitely shorten the number of snaps the reserves get!!!

  • parisislander2 May 8, 2014
    Rookie

    Kmag, there is a good chance those games you saw actually had a running clock. Most people don't even notice unless they are looking for it.

  • parisislander2 May 8, 2014
    Rookie

    A running clock does not make a lopsided score worse. It is the total opposite. Those teams that are bent on making a comback when down 50 at half almost always end up making the score worse unless the winning team decides to put the 3rd string in, and even then it usually continues to get worse.

    To an earlier poster, injury is not part of the discussion. If that were a driving force for the mercy rule, we would not be playing football at all.

  • kmagnusson May 8, 2014
    Sports Legend

    Coachp78

    I agree 100 percent. I attended some games last year that qualified for the mercy rule but starters were pulled, the losing team fought hard to score and in some cases scored 3 TDs to make the score more respectable. A moving clock will only accentuate the lopsided score by allowing the losing team less time to score. In a blowout game the winning team is usually running the ball only at the end while the losing team is opening up the play book because they have nothing to lose.

  • coachp78 May 8, 2014
    Rookie

    No its about allowing the kids that bust their tails all off season in the weight room and in the heat of the summer that don't get a chance to play every week their time playing under the lights. We as coaches already take care of pulling the dogs off when things get out of control. The last this world needs are more regulations!

  • jblue91599 May 8, 2014
    Towel Boy

    so is that it? everyone is too worried about character and teaching kids not to give up to see the obvious risk of injury. these kids aren't 5, they're 15-18. we need to teach them that you won't win every game and that sometimes it's more important to cut your losses and come back stronger next week rather than kill yourself fighting a way out of hand battle

  • parisislander2 May 2, 2014
    Rookie

    This ending the game option is not new. Coaches always had that option. I can't say I've ever seen it due to score but it was always possible for the 2 head coaches to agree to end the game.

    This rule is not a big deal. It is basically already that way now. The only reason a coach declines a running clock is because agreeing is agreeing to quit. But since it is now a rule, those coaches don't have a moral dilema. It's the rule and they accept it.

  • Cleveland Blue May 1, 2014
    Sports Legend

    roadman112000- We were only freshmen and sophomores fielding a varsity team that year. Cleveland was getting better every year until this one. Even so, the JV team still did extremely well from what I've heard.

  • Mraau95 May 1, 2014
    Sports Legend

    I agree ....if schools have the ability to forefit games I don't see the point of a mercy rule. If you know your school is on schedule to take a pounding and you want to avoid it just pay the money and forefit

  • Zach Mayo May 1, 2014
    Bench Warmer

    To clarify confusion from Cap8Fan... yes, the mercy rule running clock is now mandatory. Before, it could be agreed upon by coaches. Now it will tick no matter what.

  • West maybe is bestest May 1, 2014
    Sports Legend

    Roadman- I would argue baseball is different due to some safety concerns. I have watched the 2's and 3's with mallard creek just simply destroy teams like Robinson who could barely field 22 kids. I worry in extreme cases like that when a 175lb kid has to play both ways against fresh kids who are clearly physically developed at a much higher level that you run the risk of permanent damage.

    I think it needs to be used in extreme cases only, but yes I think there are times it is warranted.

  • Cleveland Blue May 1, 2014
    Sports Legend

    Honestly, I don't like the idea of coaches deciding the game to be over on spot rather than running the clock. However, I can say this, as a member of baseball team that went 0-20 in 2011, that 3 or 5 innings mercy rule losses are much more embarrassing than it is to lose in 7 innings. I promise you that mercy rule will not take away the lessons of losing bad as long as you play it to the end by rules. I don't think coaches should decide to end the game on spot, but it won't take away too much of lessons because there's nothing worse in high school than the disappointment of coaches when you get mercy-ruled. Trust me. I've been there far too many times.

  • West maybe is bestest May 1, 2014
    Sports Legend

    The only change to the rule that is already in place is the option to stop the game early. I believe it was Mcdowell that declined the playoff invitation this year because they new they couldn't compete on the same field as mallard creek and were concerned for their kids safety. I think Mallard Creek plays one or two of these games a year where the clock keeps running in the second half and I am fine with that rule. Unfortunately not all schools are created the same and its not the 16 year old kids fault. I do think in certain situations there is a safety factor involved.

  • oldFBfan May 1, 2014
    Towel Boy

    A coaches objective is not to win the individual football game, their objective is to provide their players with the foundation and tools necessary to win in life off the field. This new rule prohibits the players to learn the life lessons that the game of football has the capability of teaching and does not allow for the coaching staff and players to take full advantage of each opportunity (good or bad) to learn and grow as football players, teammates, and young men. I hope there is some way to reverse this decision.

  • cap8fan May 1, 2014
    All Star

    Is the only difference in the rule now compared to what is was is the mandated running clock? From what I understand, a running clock could be declined by a coach. Now, it is mandatory?

  • FKNFLENFOI May 1, 2014
    Rookie

    Patriot50- Your wrong Nyheim Hines never played in the 4th quarter in a game they won, expect Jack Britt which went down to the wire. So besides them using his picture he has nothing to do with this rule. The kid is just that good!

  • capitalwildcat66 May 1, 2014
    All Star

    Mercy rule shouldn't even be an option until at least the beginning of the 4th quarter.....

    If team A can score get up by 42 at the half... Team B can do the same after the half.. in theory

  • akabulldog May 1, 2014
    Rookie

    Dislike the rule...at the very least, leave it up to the participating coaches to decide.

  • getsome May 1, 2014
    Pro

    here is what you will see....you will see a ton of first half onside kicks.The "better" team will get the ball over and over and force the decision to be made.Teams will put that magic 42 as their watermark. You will see 2nd and 3rd string players pretty much disappear (which is unfortunate). You will see unsportsmanlike penalties in the second half go way up from the losing side. Can you imagine being on the losing side and KNOW whatever you do, whatever play is called there is no way to stop the clock. Kids are gonna have this "what does it matter now" attitude. But here is the flip side...WHAT IF a team comes back to tie it mid way through the 4th thats been running on a quick clock?? What then?? When I coached, you could beat me 100-0 but I would never just simply "give up" on behalf of my kids that have beat their brains in all week in preparation. Say what you want, but I cannot imagine a coach that would do that and if he does...i hope they are prepared to hear about it.

  • ++Ajax++ May 1, 2014
    Pro

    I have read all of the responses and I certainly respect everyones point of view, however, is continuing a game that is clearly over worth the risk of injury of a player? I know, injuries happen all the time. I wonder how you would feel if your kid had their knee blown out when the score was 50-3 in the 4th. Or if your kid got a severe concussion when the game was way out of hand. Football is different than basketball or other sports where there isn't as much contact. Remember, the objective is to win the game not "beat" the other team.

  • DeepInTheTrenches May 1, 2014
    Pro

    Band Parents would be going crazy if the game ended at half.lol I joke but seriously they would.

  • tmstubbs63 May 1, 2014
    Veteran

    Just a completely bad decision....the NCHSAA should put more thought into who they have officiating games, than worrying about hurting someones feelings if they are getting blown out.....

    The "common sense" motion mentioned by coachp78 should take care of this issue

  • middleburnpage May 1, 2014
    Veteran

    Or they could turn off the score board but keep the game clock rolling. That would probably teache a better lesson then quiting after 42 points.

  • middleburnpage May 1, 2014
    Veteran

    They should also give the coaches the option not to follow this rule, some teams are use to loosing by a large matgin and they would like to finish the game just lile any normal team.it's more embarrassing to loose because of the mercy rule then to loose 50-14.

  • West maybe is bestest Apr 30, 2014
    Sports Legend

    Coachp78-

    I think you are missing the point and its probably because I did a poor job explaining it. Coach Lucas did exactly the right thing as did the players for Wake Forest. They continued to play hard until the whistle blew regardless of the score. However- so did the Mallard Creek coaching staff and kids including the 3rd and 4th string kids, but because you are a relatively new poster you probably don't recall the 3-4 pages of hysterical fans posting on this board about Mallard Creek's " Classless behavior" or " Terrible sportsmanship" because they dared throw the football and play hard when they were up 5 TD's.

    I am fine with the mercy rule and I think it serves its purpose. I was just laughing because its EXACTLY what some posters where hoping for in the title game which is clearly not going to happen. Now at least the " We quit" option is available for the Eastern 4AA teams.

  • silkyjohnson Apr 30, 2014
    Rookie

    Really not fair to the winning teams 2nd and 3rd string kids that work hard all week.

  • coachp78 Apr 30, 2014
    Rookie

    What a great life lesson Coach Lucas could have taught his players. Losing isn't the worst thing in the world even when its a blow out, quitting or never trying are. So keep all the we will quit when things don't go our way out west. We will keep teaching our kids in the east the value of continuing to fight to the finish no matter the level of adversity.

  • West maybe is bestest Apr 30, 2014
    Sports Legend

    It was tongue and cheek , however there were at least 5 or 6 guys on the board complaining about running up the score in the MC- Wake game last year. If Wake would have just said " We quit" at half time you all could have avoided the running up the score problem.

  • Patriot50 Apr 30, 2014
    Veteran

    Nyheim Hines just lost 1,000 yards and 10 TD's next year...

  • nepsy7 Apr 30, 2014
    All Star

    It was a joke because of the competition coming out of the East 4AA....:)

  • coachp78 Apr 30, 2014
    Rookie

    Title game mercy, get real that's definitely not the time to use a mercy rule.

  • West maybe is bestest Apr 30, 2014
    Sports Legend

    Would have been helpful in the last couple 4AA title games.

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