qualifications for officials

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  • cbumphus2003 Jan 8, 2013
    Pro

    Definitely, you get all of the above mentioned results from bad calling. i understand that some mistakes will be make and makeup calls are made. But to continuously manipulate the outcome of games by assisting with wins by calling bad techs and call bad fouls to put the ball in the teams hands that refs wants to win or nevertheless just not calling fouls to enable the refs choosen team to win is absolutely obserd.

    I have even seen jump balls be given to one team 3-4 times in a row by refs as the crowd screams "IT'S NOT THEIR BALL REFS!!!" not just one jump ball but 2 or 3 in a row. This is not a typical mistake. Its a bias and favored mistake.

    I totally agree that with younger and more fairer refs that it will breed less injuries of players due to bad calls/or no calls of refs, more relaxed and more controlled crowds, more confident players that are not being stripped of their confident due to bad calls that creates turnovers and points in favor of opposing teams, and the opportunity for all fans to enjoy games that they have payed their money to see. When a ref doesn't have control of a game and make bad calls it creates a foundation that breeds; aggression, injuries, and rivery between teams and fans.

    Why do you want to do bad and know it then run out of the gym. Who wants to live like that?

  • luckymack73 Jan 8, 2013
    Bench Warmer

    I beginning to see younger refs at the JV levels, who are fair. I watched two young refs call the East Chapel Hill girls and boys JV on Monday 1/7/12. They were fair and the crowd were undercontrol. They walked calmly out the gym. However, I hope this becomes the case at Varsity level games. It's saddening to see the crowd get asked to leave, as in the case with HSH spectators at PSH and HSH game. And refs racing out of the Gym because they know they have made bad calls and are afraid of raging fans attacks. I mean what example are being made for these kids? It seems that PSH are the least favored by Refs. I just would like to see less injuries of players due to bad calls/or no calls of refs, more relaxed crowds, more controlled crowds, more confident players that havn't been stripped of confident due to bad calls that prevent turnovers and points in favor of opposing teams, and the opportunity for all fans to enjoy games that they have payed their money to see. When a ref doesn't have control of a game and make bad calls it creates a foundation that breeds; aggression, injuries, and rivery between teams.

  • luckymack73 Jan 6, 2013
    Bench Warmer

    @ kmagnusson yes italian eyes are a Roger Dangerfield look more round instead of oval and a little poppy!! LOL you can say Pepperoni. Flat head in the face and back of the head. Most people have a little round scoop and ball on the back of their heads, this guy looked as if he had laid on his back to long as a baby and this also looked to be case with the face as well. His forehead was not rounded as the regular sapains, but more flatted like the neanderthals. This is also a sign of intelligence rounded skulls. LOL!!

  • kmagnusson Jan 6, 2013
    Sports Legend

    Luckymack73

    Your post describing the physical features of the refs made my day. A flat head does come in handy if you can't find a place to put your beer. Also, I'm having a difficult time visualizing what Italian eyes look like....pepperoni maybe?

  • hina Jan 6, 2013
    Towel Boy

    RedFlame-- I watched this ref in disbelief myself. I'm still trying to figure out why he T'd up the girl with .1 seconds left in a very good game. I suppose he wanted to end it before OT. The worst call I've ever seen !!!!!

  • redflamebball Jan 6, 2013
    Veteran

    I am a former official myself and now coach AAU basketball. I saw a situation Friday that I have never seen before. This game was tied with 5 seconds left. Team A was inbounding the ball. I think one or two passes where made with the last one being stolen by team B. The girl who stole the ball appeared to have been fouled but was called for a travel with one tenth of a second on the clock. In frustration turned away from the ref and made some sound (I couldn't make out). The official called a technical on the girl and basically gave the game to team A. If that is the kid of officiating we have in North Carolina then maybe we should just play without them. I know a few of the girls on Team A and they don't feel good about winning a game that way. Utterly poor judgement

  • cbumphus2003 Jan 5, 2013
    Pro

    LOL!!

  • 1975musty Jan 5, 2013
    Pro

    lbeck. i took your advise. looked up the word hypocrite and saw your picture. funny how you judge hanovers coach but yours is always in the right for going nuts

  • jerseycop93 Jan 5, 2013
    Towel Boy

    lbeck37439 is a bum. He should be banned from this site. I'm a retired ex-law enforcer from Jersey. I moved here to be with family in the military located at Bragg. I don't come on here too often but mainly to check out the schedules to see some local teams play. However, each time I click on the message boards this Clown is always on here trying to monopolize these threads. He has consistantly showed a total lack of respect for others which shows me a total lack of character on his part. This is my first and last post. As long as inconsiderate people like lbeck37439 are allowed to continue to berate others without any repercussions then I want no part of it. I suspect that if this were a premium site where we have to pay to post then we would never hear from this guy. Come to Jersey pal. You would never get away with this stuff.

  • lbeck37439 Jan 4, 2013
    Sports Legend

    1975musty i didnt go after an official, I was stopping the New Hanover Coach from going after the time keepper, so first of know your facts,second of all look up the word Hypocrite cause if Im one, so are you.

  • luckymack73 Jan 3, 2013
    Bench Warmer

    Ibeck needs to apologize to cbumphus for over reacting when he voiced his not so bad opinion. I do not see where 1975musty needs to apologize. Ibeck say things and lashes out at people when he do the same thing. That is a hypocrite!!

    Nevertheless, I would say that there were two young white men calling the game in the pac-6 game at Northern High in Durham. These two gentlemen were both energetic and fair. The crowd was non aggressive and everyone commented on their good calls. That's really refreshing after what I have been seeing for the last 5 years.

  • 1975musty Jan 3, 2013
    Pro

    that aint gonna happen. opinions are out for everyone to state. you have yours just like others have theirs. just because we disagree doesnt mean I will apologize for having them. i see hypocrite, i call it a hypocrite.

  • 3forme Jan 3, 2013
    Veteran

    1975 musty...Remember BOTH New Hanover games that the same referee had "several" questionable calls that did actually swing the momentum of the game. LBeck is a fine person and he wears his passion for his team for all to see. Calling him a hypocrite couldn't be further from the truth. I think you owe him an apology...

  • Talentscout Jan 3, 2013
    Rookie

    I for one have never said the officials cost a game. I have seen some absurd calls but I would never say they cost the game. I will say that the overall quality of officiating in NC high school basketball is extremely poor. I have asked a friend of mine, who has officiated NCAA Division 1 Men's basketball games for over 20 years, to come and watch some games and give me his honest opinion on the officials at those games. Out of the 11 officials he saw, (one guy did two different games) he said only 2 were in his opinion qualified to do Varsity high school basketball games. The other's he said needed improvement in a major way and should be doing JV games or even middle school games. He said the 3 main areas of improvement were, 1) to get in position better and to make calls in your area not overcall another officials area. Now he emphasized that an official should call what he sees but when there is an official on the baseline and the ball is in under the basket, the trailing official usually does not have an angle to call getting hit on the arm when he has to look through 5 or 6 players to make the call. He said you have to trust your partner that he has an excellent view since he IS IN POSITION. 2) to not anticipate calls because it looks like it is a foul situation. He saw this several times and 3) Be consistent. A big pet peeve of his and he said it was the biggest problem he saw. e.g. - one kid carrying the ball and getting away with it while another kid does the same thing and gets the whistle, and the same with the shuffle step or double pivot when making a move. Bottom line, NC needs a way to evaluate officials from an independent reviewer(s) and they should be given games over time from JV games to 4A Varsity games based on those evaluations. NO two games a night and no VARSITY games until you have spent some time at the JV level.

  • 1975musty Jan 3, 2013
    Pro

    garner lost to hanover. lbeck almost got removed from the announcers table for going ballistic. complained constantly about the one referee after the loss. now two years later he was "just getting on them". whatever! hypocrite!

  • lbeck37439 Jan 3, 2013
    Sports Legend

    I do get on them, but i will never say my team lost the game cause of the officials, thats the easy way out when your team isnt as good as the team you lost to that night.

  • luckymack73 Jan 2, 2013
    Bench Warmer

    WoW!! Ibeck LOL!!!

  • 1975musty Jan 2, 2013
    Pro

    i seem to remember lbeck getting some heat a few years back for going after referees during a game. hypocrite!

  • luckymack73 Jan 2, 2013
    Bench Warmer

    Ibeck37439 I will apply. I love to be fair. The kids and parents needs to be supported and at least not feel cheated at some of these games that is called. Why did you take the comment so personal are you affiliated in any way with calling games? LOL

  • lbeck37439 Jan 2, 2013
    Sports Legend

    HERES ONE FOR YOU. FOR EACH GAME PLAYED, WE HAVE A TEAM THAT WINS AND THE OTHER TEAM LOSS THE GAME CAUSE OF THE officials, WOW AND WE SEE WERE THE KIDS ARE GETTING IT FROM.

    Also if youre so good at seeing what they are doing wrong,get off your lazy bottom,and start calling the games.

  • cbumphus2003 Dec 31, 2012
    Pro

    There's an Official basketball refs handbook on line NCHSAA. Anyone can view the book and site and make recommendations. I have viewed the handbook and alot of the refs do what they want. And at 20 an hour you should be in shape, logical, fair, and have 20/20 vision. No one should be under lights guessing a call because the gym's light was reflecting off of your glasses. Most important you should have played the sport yourself at some point in your life.

  • Talentscout Dec 31, 2012
    Rookie

    At $75 a night, these officials make more an hour than any High School Coach for the season. Anyways.... Its not about being perfect as an official, its about being in shape, being sharp, and being up to date with the game. Most younger officials want to move up to the college level and we are left with in most cases, out of shape, outdated, and out of position officials. I have seen some very, very good ones, they are just few and far between. The other thing is we can help these officials if they work only 1 game and not 2. Two games is a lot to ask for someone to be sharp and consistent, considering all the factors that go into each game. I have seen these guys sweating their you know what off during a JV game and then we expect them to be at their best and ready to go 15 minutes after for a high speed Varsity game? Get real. NCHSAA has to make that change. It will be good for everyone.

  • frankunderwood23 Dec 30, 2012
    Bench Warmer

    Not paid enough? $20 an hour for a job with minimal required qualifications and no accountability???

  • just brian Dec 30, 2012
    All Star

    As long as they are only paying someone $50-$75 for two games, they are not going to get people trained completely.

    I sit at the scoring table at the games when I am announcing and get to hear some of the discussion between officials, coaches, and scorekeepers. Many of the times that fans are hounding officials, those fans don't know the ENTIRE rule.

    Do they make mistakes? Of course. We all do.

    If you think you know so much about the game, then become an official and help be a solution. Otherwise, give them some slack. They are not paid enough to deal with some of the things I have heard levied against them.

  • cbumphus2003 Dec 23, 2012
    Pro

    I will be there my favorite Pac-6 team PSH will be in this tournament. I need to see what other teams are working with as well.

    I want to see what the refs will be calling. I hope they just call the games fairly and set a good example for the players

  • cjhiggins Dec 22, 2012
    Rookie

    luckymack73 WOG plays Apex Dec. 26th @ 9:00 PM @ Broughton High School.

  • luckymack73 Dec 20, 2012
    Bench Warmer

    What day,time, and school? I might can make it. You are in the Gud Ole Boyz Club I have signed you in as my VIP Member. PEACE

  • cjhiggins Dec 20, 2012
    Rookie

    luckymack73 seriously you have a great holiday as well. I have a kid who starts for Word of God (I guess i am in the gud ole boyz club like you are). I hope the officiating is not a problem in the Holiday tournament. Hope to see you there. Peace.

  • luckymack73 Dec 20, 2012
    Bench Warmer

    Thanks cjhiggins and anytime you need help with subject/verb agreement, homophones, or any grammer issues. Especially, style, tone, and mood writing I'm hear.. OOPs HERE. LOL Let's have fun with this years topics on this forum. Have a Great Holiday full of Blessings, Love, and PEACE!! AKA. GUD OLE BOYZ CLUB not GOOD OLE BOYS. (notice of small details)

  • cjhiggins Dec 19, 2012
    Rookie

    Luckymack73 glad I could help you. You are a good ole boy as well. Keep working on your presentation, there is still hope for you. Don't give up.

  • luckymack73 Dec 19, 2012
    Bench Warmer

    @cjhiggins you are absolutely right. I would have never known I made that mistake if you had not of brought that to my attention. I would have continued to use the wrong homophone(REALLY). What could be worse than that mistake? If I used there for the pronoun. LOL!!

    But gotta amit yal gud ole boyz like mak'n points wit small details and not c'n da whole picture.Of the comments I've made, u only could mention 1 mizstake of a mizuse of a homofone.

    In sentence 11. I use the verb were instead of was because the subject of the sentence is fouls (FOWLS) which is plural in reference to he (Hicks)(singular) being that my subject is plural fouls (FOWLS) then my verb must be plural and the plural past tense for is/were.
    Reference sentence from above.
    ex.However, most fouls(plural) he should have been called for were(past plural) called blocks with...

    I hope kids are reading this. They can see that its okay to be human and make mistakes but its worse when you try to insult someone else's grammatical intelligence when you're even less grammatically correct. Again, gathering facts are important before you speak. Most important being able to respect the First Amendment of the United States Constitution which protects the right to freedom of religion and freedom of expression shows maturity and the acceptance of different opinions.

    In summary, I will close this popular and on going topic by ellaborating on the fact that officials do make mistakes in calling games, but more than usually they manipulate the outcome of the games by calling what they want. In order to make changes you must start with voicing the problem. I would love for these kids to see games called more fairly and for the paying parents and fans to feel like they have not been robbed when they have a bad experience with bad calls by refs.

    By the way Foul meaning is an unfair or invalid stroke or play, esp. one involving interference with an opponent.

    Fowl is a bird.

    Thank

  • cjhiggins Dec 18, 2012
    Rookie

    I hope luckymack73's knowledge of basketball is better than his use of the english language. Fowled? was instead of were? Come on man. Kids are probably reading this, please set a better example.

  • lbeck37439 Dec 18, 2012
    Sports Legend

    wow you need to really read what youre saying, SEE WHY KIDS HAVE TROUBLE BEING TOLD "NO",AND PARENTS AND KIDS HAVE TROULBE WITH BEING TOLD THE TRUTH IN THIS DAY AND TIME.This is like saying guns kill people, when the truth is people kill people

  • luckymack73 Dec 18, 2012
    Bench Warmer

    Again you are trying to justify you personal feeling. I would disguise myself too, if I was you. However, I was not at Webb vs Person game. So I do not know what you are talking about. But GOOD TRY. Again get the facts. Hicks should have been out of the game long before the got fouled out with 11 secs on the board. He was in foul trouble after the first half. However, most fouls he should have been called for were called blocks with PSH #25 being charged by him 3x and only one of the charges being called a foul. This is how person was prevented from dominating the game. The refs had to keep it challenging by not allowing certain players to get fouled out, After all you had over 900 fans watching this game. Who want to disappoint them. It is what it is. REfs manipulate the games as you read this forum you are the only one illogical about refs. So save the personal conflicts for someone who buys it. No one else does. So that shows where the problem is. Get your buddy to join you in defense. I see it coming. LOL
    You see one comment and call it everything. WEAK!! You take one game I never commented on the refs in and you call it everytime. You are over sensitive and emotional. You over attacked one sentence opinion and twist it to make youself seem if you know more than you do to create a point that is worthless. REFS MANIPULATEs GAMES AND INFLUENCE PLAYS OR OUTCOMES. REGARDLESS IF IS A PERSON'S GAME OR NOT.

  • japan Dec 16, 2012
    Towel Boy

    @luckymack. I am no official by any means but I applaud anyone who will be scrutinized by constant incompetence. No I have not seen a youtube of any of the game. You complain about everything for person high? I guess you are a fan of that school. I am a fan of neither and if I recall Person High got beat by 20 the week before. If you will recall the game, the only team in foul trouble was webb, to the point where Hicks had to sit out a lot and eventually fouled out with the game on the line. So maybe Person was looking for some homecooking and still loss. Either way it is neither here nor there. Have a great day and continue to create the crutch of everyone else is to blame.

  • luckymack73 Dec 16, 2012
    Bench Warmer

    @Japan. Whenever PSH got a lead the refs made messed up calls to put the ball in webb hands or to keep players from fouling out that was influential in the win. PSH lead the game all first half and the third. In the fourth quarter the game began to tie or 1 pt leds. Then PSH took the lead again. Then the refs missed a call on webb at 2:15 minutes and the ball went down court and a score was made by Webb prior to this. This missed called created an uproar of the crowd and #5 got fouled while making a shot made his freebies and then person scored and #5 made the shot that put the score at a 1 pt game (this is what you saw on Youtube) when it did in the last 22:2 seconds in the game not 30 secs.

    You saw the youtube video that showed the 1 pt game at a highlighted play. If you was there you would have known this! or You are one of the refs trying to create face for your messed up calling.

    That is how the refs influence the game to get that score to happen or controlled to keep from PSH winning by the 10-15pts that they should have won by. The game was lost by 5 pts. You was not at the game! Stop Fronting you probably was one of the refs who called the game but is trying to catch face now. lol.
    .
    The superstars did play the game well. No one is disputing that.Both teams are great and they played hard. No,5 for Webb is awesome. Hicks, Outlaw, Logan, and myselfs talked about the game and complimented good plays. Everyone also criticized the messed up calls as well.

    I'm sorry you have a lack of knowledge about the game and fairness. It shows very clearly, if you read cbumphus earlier comment, he never used the word blame you took it personally which created a feel that you are affiliated with refereeing, if not one. You used the youtube video as proof to support your arguement. However, again this video is highlights. Not the whole game you even had the score wrong. LOL

    You're trying to create an argument that is logical but is lacking fact

  • 1975musty Dec 16, 2012
    Pro

    this no tryout. pay your money and you are on the list as soon as you meet rules clinics and scrimmages. review board? doesn't exist. do officials decide games? most the time no. there are always situations where they influence the games and the way they are played. go watch SE. always a mug fest. hand check calls are thrown out as the game progresses. perfect example of influencing the game.

  • japan Dec 16, 2012
    Towel Boy

    Saw the same game. If you blame the officials, then you have no clear understanding of the game. Game was close the whole night. 1 point game with about 30 seconds left and phs turned it over with a chance to win and a chance to tie. Both superstars played well and both teams played well. Hard fought contest that you hate to see anyone lose but it must happen.

    As far as officials qualifications, there is a try out in front of the associations review board and you are selected by the supervising official and the review board. From there you are required to attend a mandatory state clinic, 6 rules clinics, 3 scrimmages and then take a test.

    AS for a grievance or complaint, if the coach feels it is warranted he can submit the tape to the NCHSAA for review of the game. It will not change the outcome but can be reviewed and some form of disciplinary action taken.

  • Talentscout Dec 15, 2012
    Rookie

    High school officials in North Carolina are usually, out of shape, out of position, and out of their minds. I have never seen such terrible calls on a consistent basis. If what 1975musty is saying is true then the NCHSAA needs to make it a priority to get these referees trained properly, and evaluated on a regular basis. The other major problem is that these officials usually referee two games in a row, first the JV game and then the Varsity. There should be two sets of officials for each game. They should have to work JV for at least one season and if they are "evaluated" and deemed ready, then they should be given a few varsity games the next season along with their JV games. They then should be evaluated after the second season, and if deemed ready, then and only then should they be allowed to referee varsity games. The other thing is, even a seasoned official who is good will have a difficult time officiating back to back games. If the NCHSAA does not institute these suggestions which btw come from other states who do do this, the officiating in North Carolina will continue to be absolutely terrible.

  • cbumphus2003 Dec 14, 2012
    Pro

    Regardless of qualification some referees just are bias to teams and do what they want. Two refs at PSH tonight, they were of color, refused to call the multiple trips of PSH players, push offs as clear as day on PSH players, and charges that was called blocks on PSH players. They should be diciplined in some kind of way. There should be a way to file a grievance report. But it was an awesome game. Hicks and Outlaw were Great!!

  • kmagnusson Dec 14, 2012
    Sports Legend

    To qualify as an official you must be at least 70 years old, pass a sobriety test and be able to run the 40 yd dash in 4.6 minutes or less!

  • frankunderwood23 Dec 14, 2012
    Bench Warmer

    Actually, I think they are called "supervisors" now or something to that effect to more properly reflect their training/supervisory role over the officials.

  • frankunderwood23 Dec 14, 2012
    Bench Warmer

    Different booking agents are responsible for different regions of the state. At least one region provides an opportunity for coaches to go to the online booking system and provide feedback.

  • 1975musty Dec 14, 2012
    Pro

    frank....hopefully you are right. but the North Carolina High School Athletic Association runs officials, not regions. if one region does, then ALL regions would. if you are speaking about different states, i apologize.

  • frankunderwood23 Dec 14, 2012
    Bench Warmer

    Actually some regions do have feedback. Coaches can volunteer to evaluate officials using the official's assignment system.

  • 1975musty Dec 14, 2012
    Pro

    Pay the booking agent a fee of approx $100.00. you are placed on their list. to work varsity, you must attend three rules clinics, work 3 scrimmages and pass an open book, online test of 100 questions. this may be slightly different than previous years. once you have met these qualifications the booking agent assigns games. there are no forms of feedback from the coaches. no form of inseason review unless coincidence occurs and places the booking agent at the gym a referee is working.

  • frankunderwood23 Dec 14, 2012
    Bench Warmer

    Mirror test.

  • Bad Azz Boyz Dec 14, 2012
    Pro

    someone please inform of the qualifications to be a high school official, I recognize some high school officials also officiated college ball but what are the requirements to become an official.

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